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Vegans declare war on life!

08/01/07

Vegans declare war on life!

Permalink 01:25:13 am, Categories: Life Views, Current Events and News, Rant and Rave, 1883 words

This is a topic that has being brewing for a long time, and for quite awhile I have let it slide, but today I read a “news” article that really was the straw that broke the camel’s back. So I am writing this article to give different perspective to this non-issue.

Lets have a quick look at the news article that got me all annoyed titled 'No sex with meat eaters' (1), which is about a New Zealand group who wont have sex with anyone who eats meat claiming that people who eat meat have, “bodies are made up of animal carcasses”.

Humans continue to stun me at the stupidity they can accomplish. Einstein was very right when he said the only thing he was sure about was the infinity of human stupidity. Firstly this little New Zealand group where able to invent a new form of bigotry. Now not only will you be judged on your skin colour or religion... the fact that you are surviving to live also counts against you! Go New Zealand vegans! that one is under your belt.

Now let’s have a closer look at their claim that our bodies are made up of human carcasses. Well, they do’ have a point there, but completely not in the way they perceive. Yes, your body is covered with dead body cells, and we call this the outer layer of the skin, and since we are animals, I suppose they almost do have a point. However, we can take that point further. On that dead layer of skin (as well as inside us).. are millions of other dead microbial life. So in essence, its a hard world down on that level, and imagine how many more casualties those darn vegans add to it every time they have a shower. We could take this point even further, within each cell are the mitochondria, and the mitochondria.. while a part of us now, used to be a separate life form, and today, still replicates independently of the cell. So in theory, every time a cell dies two life forms die. I am making these silly points because they will have more relevance later.

Since biologically humans are designed to eat, and our prehistoric “leaf and grass” stomach, the appendix, is useless to us now we have to assume that evolution in this case, knows what’s best for us.

When the ancestors of man were still early primates a group of them were living here in Africa. The area underwent some intense climate changes and the lush forests that our ancient ancestors enjoyed disappeared and the primates had to change or die. So our ancestors changed.. they learnt to walk up right to spot danger from far away as they had less places to scramble for safety. They also learnt to to survive on meat. Understand this is early hominid evolution so we are talking approximately two million years ago.

At the same time we started eating meat we invented tools (wow talk about a coincidence hey vegans!), the ability to process meat enabled our ancestors to have a much richer source of nutrition and to therefore evolve into smarter and more complex creatures. When we learnt how to fish the omega 3+6 that was introduced into our diet enabled our brains to develop better. Studies (2) have shown that primates that have meat in their diet (yes most other primates have a percentage of their diet that is meat) that the primates who ate meat, evolved faster and better than those who were restricted to just a herbivores diet.

The evolutionary advantages in eating meat and the importance it as played in our development are very clear and should not be underestimated. Nature has being pushing our phenotype in this direction for five billion years and it’s clearly working. I have often seen a lot of propaganda comparing us to other herbivorous primates as an argument not to eat meat. All primates eat meat.. even in the gorilla.. it makes up 1 % of their diet. In chimpanzee’s it makes up 13% of their diet. Both these primates require the trace element in their systems and branched away from us about seven million years ago. Another branch of primates called Cebuella such as the Pygmy Marmoset, require as much as 50% of their diet to be meat.

There is however a big difference between us and a gorilla and other herbivorous apes;

“Our stomachs have evolved to consume both meat and plant matter. In humans, more than half (56%) of the total gut volume is found in the small intestine whereas all apes have by far the greatest total gut volume (>45%) in the colon. In addition, the overall size of the human gut in relation to body size is small in comparison to that of apes.

Hindgut dominance in apes suggests adaptation to a diet lower in quality than that consumed by humans, a diet containing considerable bulky plant material, such as insoluble fiber and seeds. In contrast, the proportions of the human gut, dominated as it is by the small intestine, the principal site of nutrient digestion and absorption, suggests adaptation to a high quality diet, one that is nutritionally dense and highly digestible relative to that of any wild ape”
(2)

Unfortunately I still have a little more of a biology lesson to teach the vegans so I am going to move onto “why meat is good for us nutritionally” before we can move onto the juicy morality issues.

I am sure at some point or another you have come across sites that have (miss) informed you that eating meat is bad for you and you don't need it nutritionally. Well that's bullsh!t. Meat is extremely good for you. The fact is, meat is the most naturally occurring, well balanced and easily obtained and digested package of proteins, essential acids and source of iron and Vitamin B 12 that you can find. Also, a protein rich meat diet is extremely good for you (3).

If fat concerns you, eat lean meat, and don’t forget to watch out for industrial grade vegetable fats such as hydrogenated and hydrogenated vegetable oils (trans-fatty acids (now banned in certain countries). When given the choice, I stick to the natural fat that’s found in meat.

While researching this topic I was speaking to a vegetarian friend in another city over MSN. I told her the topic I was writing and she let me know about her personal experience. She did not like the taste of meat and that was her reasoning for staying away from it for 9 years. However things changed when she fell pregnant. The baby growing up in her stomach required lots of iron (readily available in meat), and because she was a vegetarian, a large portion of her iron content in her body was given to the baby and the result effects was that her teeth turned grey and she started having serious health problems. Eating meat solved that problem and today she has a stunning healthy vibrant daughter.

Now that I have got the basic biology and nutritional lessons out the way lets move onto the morality of this one because It’s actually quiet ludicrous. In fact, the paragraph where I spoke about my friend and her experience is a good place to start from, because if you notice on the link I posted about our New Zealand bigoted vegans you will notice there is a related story together with a more grim reality;

The headline reads, 'Vegan couple starved baby'

"Atlanta - A vegan couple was sentenced on Wednesday to life in prison in the death of their malnourished six-week-old, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soymilk and apple juice." (3)

Wow, quiet the moral high-ground you hypocrites take. You seem to completely lack perspective. Humans like all other animals on this planet are predators to one form of life or another. The only honest forms of life out there appear to be most plants. They absorb base nutrients, sunlight and water which they convert into the energy that they require to survive... and not even- all plant are honest to this form of existence. There are more than a few carnivorous plants as well. That said, all animals above them are predators. Herbivores are predators to plants. Plants try defending themselves against this onslaught in every way they can come up. From chemical warfare through to creating sharp weapons to protect themselves. Most plants clearly do not like being eaten.

Vegans are life hypocrites. They seem to think that a plants life is not as important as an animal’s life for its right to exists. They are able to draw this weird moral line at where it’s okay to take life and when its not okay to take life. Life is life no matter exist its form. Humans are also a natural part of that life. We have just as much right to live a chicken and if you have larger scope, were way more important than a chicken.

Let’s assume for a moment that the only life in the universe is found on this rock we call earth. Let’s also assume that we want life to continue to exist. It’s not going to do that forever without help. Assuming that asteroids don't hit us, our molten core does not stop and that some other freak accident does not wipe all life off the face of the earth.. life on this planet has a count down clock. In a couple of billion year’s time our sun is going to become useless to us. It’s going to kill all life on earth. So humans may be life's last chance to create a sentient life form with the capability to allow life to exist beyond the confines of this very vulnerable planet. I think evolution would be hard pressed to push out a decent enough life form in the time we have left assuming we all kill ourselves.

Meat is important to our development and evolution and will continue to be so. Our bodies and brains consume massive amounts of energy and all for good reason. Sure we could build more factories, hire more cheap labour in 3rd world countries to produce them and add more toxic chemicals and fumes into the environment to make those in vogue designer vitamins you considering taking as a substitute for meat, or you can use natures own resource and simply eat meat.

Vegans propose they take the moral high-ground, but I propose they don't. Not only are they not using economical natural sources of nutrition, they are also denying the evolutionary advancement the trillions of ancestors that came before them fought for. You want propaganda vegans? How about this!. Stop killing our oxygen supply! Eat more meat!

Oh yes, I am well aware the title is sensationalist. Just thought I would get some vegan attention.

1 - http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2156182,00.html
2 - http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/11/3886S
3 - http://www.powerofmeat.com/High_Protein_Diets.htm
4 - http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2110953,00.html

Special thanks to Suz who is helping me work through my grammar block.

Permalink 12 comments

Comments:

Comment from: Beenz [Visitor]
I always look forward to your postings, and you always produce the goods!
Permalink 08/01/07 @ 08:03
Comment from: Richard Catto [Visitor]
When your dietary beliefs lead to killing your children (due to starvation), that's the time to stand back and realise that your ideology is a non-starter.

Those Kiwis are living in cloud cuckoo-land.

Maybe it's time to break out the strait jackets and padded cells before they hurt themselves?
Permalink 08/01/07 @ 08:20
Comment from: Cameron [Visitor]
You can not deny evolution.

Meat is Good, the Meat Industry is not.
Permalink 08/01/07 @ 10:49
Comment from: pb [Member]
Hi Cameron,

Thanks for responding! You are very right there. Large corporations are chasing that bottom dollar and we are suffering for it. Monrose are throwing terrible and dangerous hormones into a lot of the diary cattle (though more State side than here), and conditions in abattoirs and transportation of livestock is down right disgusting.

I understand the importance of meat in my diet, but on the same note am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of livestock at some well known abattoirs. What they do there makes us less than human. Just because an animal is going to be terminated for subsidence doesn't mean we cant do it right. PETA and co love showing abattoir imagery in their propogandic campaigns just as SCientologists like using Nazi death camp pictures in their personal little fight against psychiatry.

I suppose if we want to fix the meat industry we first have to figure out whats wrong with it. Off the top of my head I can think of both the transportation and termination of livestock as big problem areas. As well as fiddling with genetics we don't understand well enough (though glow in the dark pigs are cool in a way). Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

Hey Beenz!

Thanks for the comments, and thanks for the link, next time I am fiddling with the code on my site I will be sure to add a link back to your site.
Permalink 08/01/07 @ 11:07
Comment from: Tara [Visitor]
A writer for the times - apt poignant and informative
Permalink 08/01/07 @ 11:18
Comment from: Beenz [Visitor]
We farm with cattle and vegetables - its called covering your arse! ;-)

As with all things, I believe: to each their own. I just object to having other people's beliefs shoved down my throat. Be it vegetarianism, smoking, religion, politics..whatever. I abhor fanatics of any kind. If you want to lead a malnourished life eating only fruits that have fallen off the tree (what about the pain of bruising? Isn;t that cruel?), then go for it. Just leave me and my rump steak alone.

The meat industry is scary - hormones et al. But what about pesticides and chemicals used in veg production? We have strict codes we have to adhere to in order to sell our produce, but not all the veges you buy come from farms with the necessary certification.

And as for 'organic' - now theres a topic for you to research, PB! A money making racket by the retailers if ever I saw one.
Permalink 08/02/07 @ 10:43
Comment from: Jackie [Visitor]
I am Vegan (10 years now) and became so due to the cruelty of the factory farming system. There is also the health and global warming aspect which are also turning people away from meat.

About the Vegan child's death. I found that weird as how many times do you see the headline "Meat eater starves child to death". Many have done so as well as other abuse which sadly has caused the death of children.

I also found the "No sex with a meat eater" rather funny but on the other side of the coin I also find than when eating out with meat eaters no fun any more so I don't eat out except with my vegan and vegetarian friends. At least being ancient now I don't have to make the decision of who to date or not date LOL

People are changing as I have had excellent response to my vegan blog from many meat eaters who are cutting down on animal products for various reasons.
Permalink 09/20/07 @ 08:27
Comment from: pb [Member]
Hi Jackie,

I respect your choice to be a vegan but I do question some of your reasoning. Firstly I agree with your concerns on factory farming. Its disgusting and below our humanity and I am very careful not to support such ventures. Luckily I know most of the meat I eat here in South Africa is not factory farmed.

Could you please clarify the health concerns with meat so I can research the information to make an informed decision. Could you also explain what the heck the meat industry has over the (much larger pollution causing) plant food industry in Global warming. I am kinda wondering how you justify destroying more of the form of life that actually converts carbon-dioxide into oxygen.

Did you read the article on that Vegan childs death? They only fed the child soya milk based on their ignorance of a well balanced diet.

I know people are changing, they constantly do, and I am sure you had some good responses on your blog (pity that child would never get to respond), but I can also point you in the direction of people who have had positive experiences with someone who claims to be able to speak to the dead.

I dont mind that you choose not to eat meat, just dont pretend that makes you better than anyone else.
Permalink 09/21/07 @ 13:10
Comment from: robert [Visitor]
its ironic that you invoke einstein in your argument; he was an advocate of vegetarianism as a sign of higher civilization.
Permalink 07/28/08 @ 11:26
Comment from: pb [Member]
Thanks for your comment Robert, though I thought I would point out a couple of things:

1) While Einstein was an advocate for vegetarianism.. he was not a vegan (the actual topic of my original post). So I dont find it ironic.

2) What I do find ironic is that even though he was an advocate for it.. the only evidence he ever practiced what he preached.. was that he was a vegetarian in the last year of his life... only.

I strongly believe that is because he was fed false information about meat by the charlatan nutritionists in the business when he suffered health problems in the 1920`s.

Im sure if Einstein has the same information we had today, he would have had a different perspective.
Permalink 07/28/08 @ 11:37
Comment from: Rachel [Visitor]
Let me start by saying that I deplore the behavior of any parent who causes harm to their child, either by under-feeding, over-feeding, drinking whilst pregnant, smoking whilst pregnant, abuse, etc etc. If the treatment of a child leads to that child's death or suffering then OBVIOUSLY something is wrong.

HOWEVER, your very strong promotion of a meat eating lifestyle seems to be based more on ignorance than fact:

The disadvantages to health of eating meat are becoming increasingly clear due to a number of long term scientific studies with very large sample sizes. The first that I was aware of was the World Health Organisation which conducted a 10 year long survey which included over 2000 people from a number of different countries. They concluded that people with a vegetarian or low meat diet had 30% less chance of cancer. I can't remember the statistics for heart disease, diabetes and the host of other diseases that are caused by meat consumption.

An article in the new scientist about two years ago highlighted the link between consumption of animal fats and increased insulin resistance and therefore type two diabetes. Even saturated vegetable fats...of which there are only a few, the most common being coconut oil, were not associated with cellular changes.

There are numerous studies linking bowel cancer with, in particular, consumption of red meat. There are also very well established links (many studies have shown) between not only the development of, but the speed and aggression of prostate cancer.

The most recent study that came out about meat and cancer is also the most extensive, it looked at diet and the links between diet and almost all cancers. Even with smoking accounted for, lung cancer is higher in meat eaters.

Naturally obesity and heart disease are strongly linked to the consumption of saturated fats which only have animal origin.

That is just the health aspect. There are also features of human dentition, enzymes, the placement of certain cellular components etc which suggest that we were originally far more vegetarian than we currently believe ourselves to be.

Most of the early nutritional studies where carried out on rats who are actually more on the carnivorous side of omnivore than we are.

Finally, I am going to use my own health as an example. I was born to a mother who was vegetarian since her early teens. I have been vegetarian for 31 years. I have cycled the length of NZ, done all the tramps on the west coast of the south island, I used to compete in triathalons and swimming competitions almost every weekend, I run, swim and cycle almost every day. I have also cycled round a large portion of Europe and more recently Australia and NZ....and I am a woman. I have only taken ......hmmm about 5 days off sick since 2003...and some of those have been more mental health days or hangover days or just simply throwing a sickie. I literally cannot remember the last time I even had a cold and have not been sick or taken a day off sick in the last two years.

In short I am an extremely healthy, fit and strong (my muscle mass is closer to that of a man than a woman) individual who has never eaten a drop of meat in my whole life.

nearly 2/3's of the world's forest has been destroyed in the name of agriculture and most of the crops that are grown today are grown to feed animals. The main reason for the destruction of Brazillian rainforests is for the production of soya beans which are used to feed American and European cattle, pigs and poultry.

I don't even need to touch on the animal cruelty aspect of this argument. In a world where the human population has reached above 6 billion we should be looking at the most efficient diet possible, and vegetarian is it.

I am virtually vegan as I rarely eat dairy, apart from the occasional bit of cheese, and I rarely eat eggs....I support the ethical reasons for abstaining from these products but have not made a commitment myself.

Permalink 11/06/08 @ 14:08
Comment from: pb [Member]

Hi Rachel,

I read your post with some interest. Im going to have to go through it bit by bit because you sure do present a lot of information. Before we get started... I want you to know that if I ask for references, its because I honestly searched and could not find the reference you were referring to. Its not because I am trying to be smart or avoid the answer.

I am very sure I do not have all the information, so hopefully I will learn as much from this as you will. Lets work through your information a step at a time.

Rachel:
"The disadvantages to health of eating meat are becoming increasingly clear due to a number of long term scientific studies with very large sample sizes. The first that I was aware of was the World Health Organisation which conducted a 10 year long survey which included over 2000 people from a number of different countries. They concluded that people with a vegetarian or low meat diet had 30% less chance of cancer. I can't remember the statistics for heart disease, diabetes and the host of other diseases that are caused by meat consumption."

pb:

Okay, I had a good look through the WHO website, and could not find any reference to the 10 year / 2000 person study you mention. I did however find the World Health Organisation's (WHO) International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) study that was done. However, this was done with over 500 000 people and over 5 years. The study claims that excessive eating of meat (the facts that they give are if you eat meat more than 10 times a week). The study does confirm part of what you say, that eating excessive amounts of meat (and if you eat it more than 10 times a weak, your chances of cancer.

I would like to point out that excessive eating of anything leads to many different kinds of caners.

So just so we are clear, I do accept that excessive eating of meat is bad for you and can increase your chances of cancer (the one mentioned the most in that study is bowel cancer.

Source: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7353/1544/f

Rachel:

"An article in the new scientist about two years ago highlighted the link between consumption of animal fats and increased insulin resistance and therefore type two diabetes. Even saturated vegetable fats...of which there are only a few, the most common being coconut oil, were not associated with cellular changes."

pb:

I was unable to confirm this one at all. I couldn't even find research that suggested your conclusion. I did go through as much of the New Scientist website as I could. I could not find information that confirmed what you said, I only found information that seemed to suggest you are wrong. Let me give you an example:

Source: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16585444

(European journal of clinical nutrition ISSN 0954-3007 ) Peer review!

2005, vol. 59, no3, pp. 393-398 [6 page(s) (article)] (25 ref.)

In that source link a limited bit of research is done on the matter, in which it states:

"High intakes of milk, but not meat, increase s-insulin and insulin resistance in 8-year-old boys"

I am afraid I cant concur with you on that unless you present me more information.

Now I am going to re quote what you said for sake of clarity:

Rachel:

"Even saturated vegetable fats...of which there are only a few, the most common being coconut oil, were not associated with cellular changes."

pb:

I dont agree with you at all. Vegetable oils contain over 60 % omega-6 fatty acids.

A high consumption of omega-6 can cause inflammation. Furthermore, animal studies have shown that these fatty acids can increase tumor growth, whereas the omega-3s are anti-inflammatory and can reduce tumor growth.

There are also a lot of studies that confirm that many fats that you get from vegetables do cause cancer:

""In such studies, omega-6 linoleic acid appeared to be the crucial fatty acid . . .' and 'Vegetable oils (eg Corn oil and sunflower oil) which are rich in linoleic acid are potent promoters of tumour growth"

Source: Kearney R. Promotion and prevention of tumour growth - effects of endotoxin, inflammation and dietary lipids. Int Clin Nutr Rev 1987; 7: 157.

I think you need to have another careful look at the information you have as it appears to conflict with mine. Should you wish we can compare notes on which groups of fats are actually more cancernagetic than others.

From my research, meat fats are far healthier:

"Linoleic acid is one of the essential fatty acids that our bodies need but cannot synthesise. We must eat some to survive. Fortunately there is one form of linoleic acid that is beneficial. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) differs from the normal form of linoleic acid only in the position of two of the bonds that join its atoms. But this small difference has been shown to give it powerful anti-cancer properties. Scientists at the Department of Surgical Oncology, Roswell Park Cancer Institute, New York (16) and the Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, New Jersey Medical School, (17) showed that even at concentrations of less than one percent, CLA in the diet is protective against several cancers including breast cancer, colorectal cancer and malignant melanoma.

Conjugated linoleic acid has one other difference from the usual form - it is not found in vegetables but in the fat of ruminant animals. The best sources are dairy products and the fat on red meat, principally beef
"

*Wolk A, et al. A Prospective Study of Association of Monounsaturated Fat and Other Types of Fat With Risk of Breast Cancer. Arch Intern Med . 1998; 158: 41-45

So unless you can give me more information, that claim on the fats is not swinging with me. So I am going to ask you to offer more research to support your claim.

Rachel:

"There are numerous studies linking bowel cancer with, in particular, consumption of red meat. There are also very well established links (many studies have shown) between not only the development of, but the speed and aggression of prostate cancer."

pb:

Actually.. theres really just the one (that I can find).. the one with the 500 000 people tested over five years. Which states that eating a "lot" or "excessive" amounts of red meat could possibly lead to these conditions. Unless you can show me more research (try find the links to the original journals if you can please).

Rachel:

"Naturally obesity and heart disease are strongly linked to the consumption of saturated fats which only have animal origin."

pb:

Yup. This is true.

Rachel:

"That is just the health aspect. There are also features of human dentition, enzymes, the placement of certain cellular components etc which suggest that we were originally far more vegetarian than we currently believe ourselves to be."

pb:

I think my original article covers this. We are only recently (last 5 million years of our 4 billion years of evolution) adapted to eating meat, and as stated in my article its for that simple reason that we elevated ourselves up from prey to predator, developed more brains and worked our way to the top of the food chain.

Rachel:

"Most of the early nutritional studies where carried out on rats who are actually more on the carnivorous side of omnivore than we are"

pb:

I was reading up on meat eating squirrels the other day. Those russian squirrels are insane... and they hunt in packs.

Rachel:

"Finally, I am going to use my own health as an example"

pb:

I eat meat several times a week. I dont get sick. I eat the least veggies in the house as well. Im healthy, 6ft 2, have perfect eyesight, loads of energy, have completed the Argus Pick n Pay Cycle tour , climbed several mountains (including the largest one in Africa) and consider myself lucky for it. My friends are similar and you can find us rock climbing, surfing and enjoying life as well as anyone else.

Rachel:

"I don't even need to touch on the animal cruelty aspect of this argument. In a world where the human population has reached above 6 billion we should be looking at the most efficient diet possible, and vegetarian is it."

pb:

No its not. Pound for pound animal meat is the best form of nutrition. It also includes many substances we need that are not found in plants. As for the animal cruelty... imagine everyone in the world stopped eating meat today. You would have to kill around 40 billion sheep and cows to make room to plant crop. It would be nice to keep them all alive, but... farmers are practical people, and they cant feed and maintain these herds if their resources are going into plants.

Not all areas are good for plants (even hydroponics and land that may be good for animals may not be good for the plants we eat and visa versa.

My conclusion:

I like your ideas, but because you dont have all the information I can understand some of your confusion. Take for instance your comments cancer. Do you know you state the reason for those cancers a little while later? Yup. Humans have only being eating meats for around 5 million years. Which means some of our bodies are not completely adapted to eating meat. So eating meat in large quantifies is going to push our cells to try adapt. IE.. cancer. This is going to happen.. people with the wrong genes are going to suffer and if your family is cancer prone.. honestly.. eat more veggies less meat. Ill support that.

However, changing the human diet to vegetarian would be very unhealthy. It would screw up our kids and slow down our mental evolution (kinda very important now).

To get an idea of what I mean by this read this study:

"A recent study showed that children who ate meat developed more muscle mass and scored higher on mental testing than children who did not eat meat."

Source: http://www.healthylivingnyc.com/article/117

To finish off my advice is a healthy balanced meal, with enough fibre, veggies and meat in it. Cutting out any of those sources of nutrition is going to effect your growth or future growth negatively.

You are welcome to chose what you want to eat, but remember when you pass your hangups onto your kids you are harming them more than hurting them

Permalink 11/06/08 @ 16:22

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